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 Post subject: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 17:08 
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Hey Guys, I was wondering...

Would a court system work in this server?


-Herrman Wolff-

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 17:10 
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We would need the new map. How about we add that to the map's to do list?

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 18:12 
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It might be possible to add one in the city hall. I support this.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 18:15 
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In-Game Courts usually don't do too well. If you 'abridged' the legal system, though, you could kick ass. IE, Lawyers show up, Judge shows up, Suspects' records are checked if available, Judge makes an educated decision after the two Lawyers argue it out, or if only one is present, just the Defense lawyer defending his client's judgement.

We don't have room for Juries, really, but the least we could do is ask for an oversight position for Executions. That could be done either in-game or out, but letting the Cops judge who to blow away in the interrogation room is whacked logic.

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They're gonna hang me in the mornin', and I'll never see the sun.~


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 18:38 
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Praphet wrote:
In-Game Courts usually don't do too well. If you 'abridged' the legal system, though, you could kick ass. IE, Lawyers show up, Judge shows up, Suspects' records are checked if available, Judge makes an educated decision after the two Lawyers argue it out, or if only one is present, just the Defense lawyer defending his client's judgement.

We don't have room for Juries, really, but the least we could do is ask for an oversight position for Executions. That could be done either in-game or out, but letting the Cops judge who to blow away in the interrogation room is whacked logic.


Agreed, we wouldn't need a jury... it just would take to long. A single judge would do the trick.

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Name: Herrman Wolff
Status: Alive
Job: Md Intern
Location: NukeCity
===========================
-Your friend, Fatboy3227-
-aka Herrman Wolff-


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 19:24 
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I was thinking something like this...

The Chief Justice is the head of the court system(s) and laws of the server, and the chief judge of the Supreme Court. He is one of “x amount” Supreme Court justices; the other “x amount” are the Associate Justices of the Court .
The Chief Justice is the highest judicial officer in the country. He acts as a chief administrative officer for the federal courts and appoints high officials of the city. He also serves as a spokesman, taking on some responsibilities as appearing before the Server Admins to advocate for higher pay for high officials.
The Chief Justice leads the business of the Supreme Court. In the case of an firing, or impeachment, of a higher official, which will occur, the Chief Justice presides over it. He, the Chief Justice, also has the duty of administering the oath of office of the head Police State and Medical Department, but this is not required.


The Supreme Court originated as a synonym for Law/Rules Group. It’s the highest judicial body in the city, and leads the judiciary. It consists of the Chief Justice and the Associate Justices, who are nominated by the Chief Justice and other high officials and confirmed by their “advice and consent”. Once appointed, Justices effectively have life tenure, serving "during good Behavior," which terminates only upon death, resignation, retirement, or conviction on impeachment. The Supreme Court is primarily an appellate court, but has original jurisdiction over a small range of cases.


The job titles do not explicitly grant the Supreme Court the power of law/rules; nevertheless, the power of the Supreme Court to overturn laws and executive actions it deems unlawful or unconstitutional is a well-established precedent of balance. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from law/rule body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Supreme law ought to be preferred to the statute, consummating the system of balances. This power allows judges to have the last word on allocation of authority among government, which grants them the ability to set bounds to their own authority, as well as to their immunity from outside checks and balances.
The Supreme Court cannot directly enforce its rulings; instead, it relies on respect for the Constitution and for the law for adherence to its judgments. Some argue that the Supreme court is "the most separated and least checked of all branches of government. Justices are not required to stand for election by virtue of their tenure "during good behaviour," and their pay may "not be diminished" while they hold their Though subject to the process of impeachment. Also, the Supreme Court is not immune from political and institutional restraints.

Aye?

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-aka Herrman Wolff-


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 19:26 
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Fatboy3227 wrote:
Praphet wrote:
In-Game Courts usually don't do too well. If you 'abridged' the legal system, though, you could kick ass. IE, Lawyers show up, Judge shows up, Suspects' records are checked if available, Judge makes an educated decision after the two Lawyers argue it out, or if only one is present, just the Defense lawyer defending his client's judgement.

We don't have room for Juries, really, but the least we could do is ask for an oversight position for Executions. That could be done either in-game or out, but letting the Cops judge who to blow away in the interrogation room is whacked logic.


Agreed, we wouldn't need a jury... it just would take to long. A single judge would do the trick.


Maybe not a jury but have monthly elections on judges or weekly rotation of judges. The reason being is because some judges may be bias and we don't have anyone to over rule their decision. I'm not saying use my idea but we need a form of checks and balance when it comes to something as delicate as this.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 19:27 
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Rorschach wrote:
Fatboy3227 wrote:
Praphet wrote:
In-Game Courts usually don't do too well. If you 'abridged' the legal system, though, you could kick ass. IE, Lawyers show up, Judge shows up, Suspects' records are checked if available, Judge makes an educated decision after the two Lawyers argue it out, or if only one is present, just the Defense lawyer defending his client's judgement.

We don't have room for Juries, really, but the least we could do is ask for an oversight position for Executions. That could be done either in-game or out, but letting the Cops judge who to blow away in the interrogation room is whacked logic.


Agreed, we wouldn't need a jury... it just would take to long. A single judge would do the trick.


Maybe not a jury but have monthly elections on judges or weekly rotation of judges. The reason being is because some judges may be bias and we don't have anyone to over rule their decision. I'm not saying use my idea but we need a form of checks and balance when it comes to something as delicate as this.



I think I just stated that idea(s)/ideal(s) in the post you probably didn't see yet.

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Name: Herrman Wolff
Status: Alive
Job: Md Intern
Location: NukeCity
===========================
-Your friend, Fatboy3227-
-aka Herrman Wolff-


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 22:09 
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Joined: 06 Feb 2009, 22:39
Posts: 9
I have always wondered:
How does capital punishment deter crime? I mean, I'm all for good RP, but not to the extent that I stop playing a character (something that isn't possible without contacting an admin anyway) when I am killed for a crime. Even being in jail for 10 minutes hurts your character more: you don't get paid. What's the use in killing someone when you can just respawn 10 seconds later? If we're goring to reform the justice system in the RP server, I say we make some sort of reform to the death sentence.

Here's my suggestion: Temporarily take away the player's job for a few minutes (5, 10, 15? It should probably be longer than an extreme jail sentence) so there are some detrimental effects other than just losing weapons you may have bought (or stole). I'm struggling between applying this to ALL killed characters or just to a character killed by, say, a "/lethalinjection" command. The problem with applying to all characters would be griefers who could just come in at any time and Kung-Fu someone to death, forcing them to lose pay while they were unjustly killed. This could be avoided by adding an admin command to restore pay to someone killed. Conversely, applying it to other characters would make RP situations, or situations in which RP can be applied, much more biased towards RP. After all, what foolish cop or stuck up mafia member is going to risk running into a firefight if he loses his pay for 15 minutes?

If there is some punishment of which I am not aware, please tell me. I'm not sure how the capital punishment is executed, as I've never had the pleasure (luck?) to see a crime which warrants such action.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 22:32 
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The capital punishment right now...

An m4 to the back of somebody's head.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2009, 22:35 
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Most executions that I've seen are CKs so that solves that issue.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 00:03 
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CK?

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 05:37 
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Character Kill

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 07:45 
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Eric wrote:
Most executions that I've seen are CKs so that solves that issue.


CK's are by the choice of the person being killed

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 11:03 
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In some cases, CKs may be "suggested" or "imposed" rather forcefully.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 13:14 
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Gregor wrote:
Eric wrote:
Most executions that I've seen are CKs so that solves that issue.


CK's are by the choice of the person being killed


...Which is the dumbest system in place ever becasue no one will take a CK no matter how big of a hole they dig for themselves. It not only ruins any sense of achievement for the cops/criminals who have worked a long time to kill their arch nemesis, but it also makes RP just seem pointless since everyone just respawns and continues right where they left off. Executions should be CKs, though maybe make it an execution only after like the 3rd murderous rampage so people don't go to a robbery, kill one cop and suddenly lose their character.

That being said, I also think CKs shouldn't be viewed as a punishment. If no one ever dies then the server will never move on to new storylines. If you are constantly battling the same 3 people for months in real time with no way to end it, you will get bored. Hell just to mess things up I'm actively trying to CK Shadow as part of an extremely long RP that has been going on for probably at least 8 months or so real time from way back in the old Nukesilo. Without CKs, the server gets stale very fast as it's just the same people doing the same things and no new orgs can come and no one can buy property because no one ever loses it. People need to get it through their heads that CKs aren't a punishment.

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Chief Steve Ericson: (( That's like the 3rd time the diner has been blown up )
Kumiko Hasegawa: (( i smell insurance scam ))


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 13:41 
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I agree with Eric, and also I'm hoping to soon figure out a way to incorporate the use of lawyers and Maxcare Financial to allow people to sign wills that direct the distribution of their belongings to loved ones when they die. The use of life assurance will allow people to have their money distributed when they die, too. Since most people tend to start over as a relative or friend of their former character when that character is CKed, there will be somewhat of a workable storyline then following why the relative has suddenly entered town and now has all the assets the deceased once had.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 14:03 
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The ideas stated here are the reason Nukesilo is such a good server.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 17:58 
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A lack of enforceable CK's are also the downfall of good 'Hitmen.' Now, a few will still pay good money to see that a nice roleplay is put into action, but quite frankly, I can't see why they would bother most of the time. I'll tell you what I mean, by telling a little story that sums up the extent of the problem;

Last night, I took a second try at the art of contract killing as my Hitman character Arthur Templeton; working for Kei Sprague, I took $7,000 to kill Lieutenant Ivan Drago((By the way, I took a picture to verify my client, and asked an admin before I made any move on actually killing Drago)). I made sure I did everything by the book. My fraudulent company, 'Templeton Therapy,' helped me concoct a nice little trap to seek out and kill the man, in a not-so-efficient, but very thorough manner.

(If you want the full details, here they are. Learn from the best, mofuckas. If not, its very lengty, and the next bold lettered message marks the end of the story..)

I called Valerie 'Peany' Ryuden, the Assistant Police Commissioner, and fed her my BS story. I knew only the name of my target, but I had no means of knowing what he looked like, or how to get into contact with him personally. The general idea was, that I had recieved a domestic disturbance report from a client of my Therapy company, and that the client was the spouse of Ivan Drago--I needed his badge number to fill out some paperwork. I hoped that Ryuden was a bit out of the loop on any of a Police Officer's personal information, as I didn't know Drago even had a wife. My suspicions were correct; she gave me the badge number I needed to properly identify the Cop I was looking for.

Then, I scouted out the Cops around the area; I bumped past a few beat Cops, starting idle chat or just staring at them. As per Proper Roleplay, if there were a few cops around, and Drago was one of them, I didn't follow him like a hawk because I saw his name on my screen. Eventually, I crossed his path in the Department lobby, where I hung to the side, keeping my head down and my sunglasses on. In a dodgy, somewhat uncharacteristic tone, I asked him about some method of Police Procedure(I think it was Capital Punishment, or something like that), and read his badge; he said he was busy, and headed off. I had a face to put on my target now, and started following him.

For a few minutes, I followed him around town at a distance, never seeing him stray too far from the Department. I looked up his name in the phone book, and memorized the number; I asked a few bystanders what they knew about him in a very hush-hush tone, but nobody saw him much from what I asked. When I lost track of him, I went back to the PD lobby and stayed as much out of sight as I could of the vigilant employees. Sure enough, I saw him walk around past the Armory a few times.

I realized the best way to get to him would be to talk to him inside the Police Department; it would be risky, and I'd have to do it unarmed, but I knew it might be worth the daylight robbery prices I charged. I left the Department for the Hotel room I squat in, and dialed him up; I gave him another horribad story, which he halfway bought, with a bit of suspicion. I had a paperwork problem; he was confused with ANOTHER man by the name of Drago, affiliated with an entirely different Police Department in another State. The client complaining of abuse, his 'wife,' was referred to sister therapy Office. The whole thing was set up to be an act of God problem, where the paperwork had to be sorted out ASAP, so that charges were not pursued that might besmirch the Officer's good record.

I saw him once again at the Department; angry I couldn't draw him out, and short on time, I ditched my gun out in the alley behind the Police Station, and got together a lot of random files for a folder, to look as official as possible. I talked to the Lieutenant at the Lobby, and though it probably isn't, I knew that the glass of such a touchy building would RPly have bullet-resistant glass of some kind-- shooting him and running was a no-go. I talked my way up to the point, where I might get in and finish the job in some quiet corridor of the Police Department, and quickly slip out before they found the body.

BUT ALL WAS FOR NOTHING.

As I stood in line waiting, a man behind me began pestering me. I told him to "Jog on, wanker," after he barked "Move!" Apparently offended, he walked off. I returned to talking the Officer into letting me in, a lot of round-about, needlessly pedestrian dialogue; perhaps I could have bored him to death. Then, the man from behind me walks in, and without a word, nay, without even an action, begins stabbing.

As I fall dead, midsentence of typing my next question to the Officer, I realize the Job Title I've just read on the amateur killer, Omar Suarez. "Hitman." He runs hopping out of the Department lobby, and kills a fully-armed Officer with his knife down the road. I had to abort the job, as I go by the policy that, should an act of God intervene, my intended victim ought to be spared any further pursuit(part of the Roleplaying code of conduct, 'Forgetting' what you're doing I suppose). I sent back my Client the $7,000 dollars.

The Moral of the Story? With today's Generally-Accepted system of CK's being optional, you can't kill someone in any sort of meaningful way. Life is cheap, and in the Hitman Business, why bother with that much time and effort? A cycle of shooting someone and running has been put into place, where the Hitmen are just random assholes off the street, with no prerequisite test of Roleplaying ability. It's not beyond me to assume that metagaming is frequent, and that the pay for one of the kills is probably nothing more than $500 or $600. Neither is it beyond me to assume that anyone paying for such a simple hit with such bogus advertisements (**Need someone out of the picture, for good? Call 555-0555.** **Someone giving you trouble? We'll take care of them.** etc, etc) must not expect much justifiable motive would be needed. "That guy called me a bitch, I'll show him!" might be all that's needed.

It's no fault of the players involved, other than to the extent of killing without decent roleplay. The price is down, the standard is down, and for what? Because it's not a character-kill anymore, and the only ones willing to pay a painful price to have a nuisance removed, are dinosaurs like me. I suggest we bring the industry a new standard of a tightly-run, feesibly escapable method of enforceable Character Killing--and expect me to outline it at some point or another.

What do y'all think?

Wake wrote:
The ideas stated here are the reason Nukesilo is such a good server.


Also, this.

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~They're gonna hang me in the mornin', before the night is done,
They're gonna hang me in the mornin', and I'll never see the sun.~


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 19:06 
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Agreed with everything, man, and now perhaps us admins should discuss modifying the official server policy on hitmen and CKs.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 19:33 
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I recall the price being 5k minimum

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[21:22] <@Toretto> Elementary?
[21:26] <@Supernuker> ....

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 20:33 
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@Gregor- Really? I've heard of much cheaper hits, just since Templeton's start about two or three weeks ago. Under $1,000 in at least a couple cases. I've never heard the legitimacy, again, I'm not sure what caliber of folks are hired as Hitmen very often.

@Max- Glad ya think so; if you reach anything, any step forward is helpful to that kind of roleplay. And some guy around the server said he was starting an 'Elite Hitman Organization,' you might want to check what he and his colleagues are up to in that line of work. I'm sure they'd be interested at whatever level.

_________________
~They're gonna hang me in the mornin', before the night is done,
They're gonna hang me in the mornin', and I'll never see the sun.~


Maxwell Murder wrote:
Gordan and Praphet, you are the two halves of God.


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 20:39 
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008, 00:07
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I've seen people do hits for like, 300$.


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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 21:56 
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The current minimum acceptable price for a hit is $5,000. Anybody doing hits for less should be reported to the admins, and they will be punished super duper hardcore.

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 Post subject: Re: the Court Room.
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2009, 22:54 
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I've caught a hit for 900, the dude didn't know so I got him to fix the price.
All was well... except the poor rp for the kill -_-

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[21:22] <@Toretto> Elementary?
[21:26] <@Supernuker> ....

{AU} Vincetti [I'M NOT LOUIE]: is that someone jacking off?


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